Home Archive › Forums › Dogs › Advanced Dog Training › nervous Jake
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kizkiznobite.
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May 31, 2009 at 1:57 pm #63589
beth corbett
MemberHi, I’m Beth and have just recently joined the dog forum. I have a lovely great dane boy called Jake who is 3 years old. He is a really good dog in most ways but does have some issues. We have had him from 8 weeks from when I started his basic training and socialising we also enroled in a puppy training class which lead on to the more advanced training which we are still going to now. At puppy class he was very nervous and on his first day growled and snacked at a man who tried to touch him. He had never done anything like that before and unfortunatly I didnt notice the signs untill it was to late. We have made good progress since then but he still can be really nervous and stand offish around some people (especially men)Also when strangers come to the house he frantically barks and has to be put away till he calms down . Out on walks he pulls to see them but when they try to touch, he sometimes growls and lunges. I’ve read loads of different books and spoke to different trainers all with different suggestions which I have tried but he can be so unpredictable. I have also been told that I have done well to get him this far and might just have to accept this is how he is. Which has left me nervous and I have started trying to avoid certain situations which is a shame as he misses out and I would love to involve him in more dog activities. When we go to fun dog shows and places with lots of people he is different, he pull’s on the leader a bit more but is happy to go and see anyone. His confidence has got better since we started going out for walks with the Hands on Paw girls and their dogs but when its me and him I feel a bit restricted. So I was wondering if any one had any advice to help me and Jake get our confidence back. :help:
May 31, 2009 at 2:10 pm #79836xtine
MemberHi Beth, welcome to the board.. Bev (Kizkiznobite) will be able to give you advice :ok:
May 31, 2009 at 2:29 pm #79837kizkiznobite
Memberhi and welcome
can we have more info hun….
what diet is he on
what are you doing saying have said done when this happens
you mentioned the first incident …can you remember the next time it happened
is he entire
happy to help 🙂
what is his affix
what sort of temperament did his parents have
the house stuff….what have you done said doing say ….i am not in favour of excluding when this happens prefering to teach door manners etc but i appreciate that he a big dog and folks may feel intimidated
do you mind if foxy puts up her point of view or emails me any useful info ….
May 31, 2009 at 3:25 pm #79838MemberThank you for getting back to me so quick.I welcome any advice you or any one else can give me. Jake is fed on james wellbeloved turkey and veg we tried him on a natural diet (Laura from hands on paws did us a great diet sheet) but we found it too hard so he gets his dry feed watered down to a mush and he gets raw bones and raw mince sometimes. When he meets people on walks we tell them not to touch him (and try and get Jake to sit but when he is nervous he struggles) and if he’s not to up tight we give them a treat to hold on the palm of there hands which most of the time works but then they try and touch him and it all goes wrong and we panick which I know does not help. He doesnt trust adults to really touch him at all now but children can, so we tell them to stroke under his chin which he likes, except the children who live next door who he is really nervous of (and unfortunately head butted the youngest one the other day). He is nutered but I think I may have had it done too young. His mam was lovely , his dad was freindly but a bit aloof when we first met him but he was a stud and show dog who lived in posh out door kennel where as his mam was a pet. In the house we bring him out on the leader when we have the guests seated. When he knows the person I try and make him sit to greet but he is so strong and excited its hard to keep him still. I normally let him say hello to the guest and then sit on the floor with him some times giving him a toy to bring out helps. When the hands on paw girls came to meet him they threw treats at him until it built up his trust but we find it impossible to do that with every one. We do clicker trainging and i have tried bar open bar closed sruff out of the culter clash book but when he is stressed all training seems to go out the window
May 31, 2009 at 3:32 pm #79839Memberok a couple more questions….
what age was he done at
why do you always/expect him to sit to greet…..i suspect you have re-enforced this behaviour…i also suspect that as per your other post there is stress being activated….
answer these…i am off to eat but will be back on later…..
May 31, 2009 at 3:53 pm #79840MemberWe had him done at about 6 months as that is what we were recomended to do by the vets and our dog trainer. We also were taught sit to greet at dog class. Looking forward to speeking to you later :happy:
May 31, 2009 at 4:08 pm #79841Memberok i get the picture…the thing is you are setting him to fail ….a greet is a greet a sit is a sit a no lunge is a no lunge…each is an individual behaviour….and each needed to be got on cue fluent and reliable without hesitation anywhere anytime anyplace…so you have had extinction over extinction for 3 years and you have been re-enforcing the behaviiours that he displays….for example…you got him on a leash in his house….so you deny the flight…you put him in a liedown but then you get on the floor in order to get some control….
you have also got trapped immaturity due to the early castrate and…..also very importantly he has some back end discomfort due to previous health problems and now arthritis…he doesnt know it the arthritis that is causing him pain/discomfort….as he sets into a lunge then he may be/have done already…associated that pain with ‘human’…..this is a classical conditioning ‘move on’….
in the stickies you will see a thread general levels of criteria…have a read of that and then come back and tell me what behaviours you have at each criteria…as in sit criteria 1 fluent and reliable….recall criteria 5 reliable 1 time out of 5 etc…ok with me?
you are going to have to go back to basics i think…you will need to remodify the learnt and mistaught stuff and then correct the cues to fluency….and he needs to learn his manners before he really hurts himself or someone….
what did you actually do in the training classes and what sort of training was it…how was the recall taught for example…right through start to finish…..
May 31, 2009 at 5:50 pm #79842Foxisle_crazy
MemberHi beth!
Just a bit of background from me. When we first met Jake it was in his house, beth and family were very concerned that he was aggressive. We soon realized he was anything but, he’s very nervous of strangers. His initial reaction was big barking, reinforced by the family by shouting and general fussing over him. We soon worked out that he was terrified of his own shadow and would much rather scare you off with his bark or run and hide from you. Once we’d sat he was reluctant to come close but by ignoring him and talking to the family he started to become more curious and came very close to sniff our faces and heads, but always ready to flee if needed. We threw treats around near him until he gradually started to take them from our hands. It took around 4-5 sessions of doing this before we even attempted to walk him outside, we didn’t want to pressure him at all.
Gradually he’s progressed to a really good boy outside with us, and doesn’t generally have a problem on walks, however he does when out with the family. He can definately feel Mams emotions on the other end of the leash, she’s very conscious of his size and people’s reactions towards him. We’ve worked a lot on trying to get her to relax!
As far as i can gather from Beth and knowing the trainer who favours small dogs, the trainer is quite nervous of Jake so again more stress is felt on the end of the leash. He definitely is finely tuned to emotions in the house, he also obsessed over chasing tiny flies or specks of lint in the house.
May 31, 2009 at 6:00 pm #79843Memberthanks foxy…you answered my question to you before i asked it…and that was any difference when you out with him without beth…..
ok so there are re-enforced behaviours some pain/discomfort a conditioned flight response and some poor cueing?…is that how you would sum it up?
May 31, 2009 at 8:34 pm #79844Member[quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=14308.msg267839#msg267839 date=1243792813]
thanks foxy…you answered my question to you before i asked it…and that was any difference when you out with him without beth…..ok so there are re-enforced behaviours some pain/discomfort a conditioned flight response and some poor cueing?…is that how you would sum it up?
[/quote]yep perfect 🙂
July 3, 2009 at 10:10 am #79845Memberthere is a more recent thread billy…. 🙂
https://www.resources.dogclub.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14401.0.html
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