Bad relationship

[kizkiznobite]

as i said in my posts…of course my dogs are cued to a down… visual or verbal or whistle..they are also cued to a stop but that does not mean drop down…it just means stop as i am going to tell you to do something else…they are also …eventually …cued to series and chains that can involve both…if i cue stop i dont want an automatic down…just like suz said with honey…they are gunners..i dont want them to drop on a stop cue…i want them to drop on a down cue…as i said i might want them to stop and go left or right

and it is not the down that is the aversive is it?…it is putting dog on leash…negative punishment … reducing behaviour by taking away that ‘something good’… a dog will work to avoid it getting taken away ….recall a dog and put on leash and leave park everytime during the training process then recall will break down….same principle

have a great holiday  🙂

and the science behind the learning folks..
classical conditioning…

It is the process that is defined when a person or animal comes to associate a certain object, sense or state; known as the Unconditioned Stimulus with a painful or pleasant experience, known as the Unconditioned Response which causes the stimulus to become physiologically reactive, known as the Conditioned Stimulus .. thus creating a particular response whenever the stimulus is offered or present, known as the Conditioned Response…standard behaviourist jargon and yep we use shorthand  🙂

an example…Brose muzzled by vet to apply antispetic:

Unconditioned Stimulus                       Unconditioned Response
Muzzle Pain/Discomfort

Conditioned and Unconditioned Stimulus                      Unconditioned Response
Muzzle + Antiseptic Bottle Pain/Discomfort

Conditioned Stimulus       Conditioned Response
Antiseptic Bottle Pain/Discomfort

This form of learning is important to dog behaviourists and trainers because of its impact on overcoming the ‘inertial time lag’ of being able to reward the dog during a training exercise by introducing a delivery signal or a created conditioned reinforcer; often called a ‘bridge’, which the dog associates with a forthcoming reward.  This forms the basis of ‘clicker training’, the sound of the clicker becoming the signal for the conditioned response that is being rewarded. 

mudgie is going to do cuberts wheelybin eppy’s …are you not mudgie  ;D

[wags]

i still prefer my answer

CJ – you can give him to me  :ok:

[cjane]

Still here and sticking with this thread, lots of interesting stuff being discussed.

I convinced myself that a ‘back to basics’ effort was required at the start of this year. I put together a plan of the behaviours I would work on and set myself some targets. We practiced every morning but it didn’t seem to any effect on his problems.  In June we saw the behaviourist who told us the problem was our relationship and advised the bonding thing. I’m not convinced this was made any difference either.  She said we needed regular sessions but due to other commitments she could not help further.

So, I’m back to thinking that we should return to our ‘back to basics’ effort, and what Dree has said backs this up.  I am aware that some behaviours will never be 100%, as Kiz told me, we’ve had too many failures, like recall, but if I can get a ‘work around’ or find another way to manage a situation, then so be it. 

CJ
PS Wags, what can I say… He’s my boy! On second thoughts, have him if you can fix him, but you must give him back!

[Anonymous]

Hi,

CJ – remind me where abouts you are ?  I’m convinced that theres something that we’re missing or not quite understanding that would be helped by one of the board members who has been “bev’d” coming and visiting and doing some video.

When I last saw Izzie she was working on her heelwork and just one slight change to what she was doing and the improvement was massive but it could have been missed “in words” quite easily 😉

Claire x

[wags]

we could swop for a bit  :yes:

[Anonymous]

oooh – you didnt say owt about swapping !!

CJ – dont let her palm off Cleo or Brock on you !!

Claire x

[wags]

im not that mean

i’ll palm off Glen  :yes:

[Anonymous]

mmmm – and you think a real sheepdog will be easier how ???  😉

what happened to Glen’s partner dog is she still around somewhere ?

Claire x

[wags]

no Glen as in red dog left hand corner of signiture

although this is all ISDS breeding and is a tad herdie hes simple in every way

[Diesel73]

[quote author=*Nick* link=topic=12456.msg241461#msg241461 date=1221769689]
multi-tasking?!  not that old nugget again ladies  :whatever:

I can multitask…I drive a transport truck and I can turn a corner, downshift gears, blow the air horn and yell at some stupid car driver all at the same time thank you very much!  :canadian:

In a mans world what is going on here in this thread is what we would call “measuring dicks”  :yes:

[/quote]
Bwahahahaha  😀 .

This thread sooo confusing  :death: … Will let you ladies continue with the typical girlytalk. Can’t remember who said what where about what. What is about which dog and who does what when whatever dog does anything… Will go out for a good old electric-barbwire-p.ssing-contest. Easy, simple, fun, laughs, winner get’s a drink. Brain in soothing cavemanmode now  :yes: .

[SuzAndTheDiva]

men  ::)  ;D  ;D

[Foxisle_crazy]

LOL!  I cant believe that is what its being compared to but thinking about it i suppose it is!  😀

[kizkiznobite]

no it isnt actually…but…heyho… :whatever:

[Anonymous]

just so i’m not confused Glen and Izzy sheepdogs is a different Glen than your mums red boy ?

(i know it dont take much)

Claire x

p.s. is red Glen from my lovely Pip’s breeder ?

[zoe hale]

[quote author=cjane link=topic=12456.msg240790#msg240790 date=1221568078]
As some of you regulars might remember, we’ve been struggling with some ‘issues’ with our dog for about a year now.  Five behaviourists/trainers later and we’ve still got ‘issues’.  The last person we spoke to, whose experience and advice I respected, told us that the problem was with our relationship with our dog.  He is quite an independent chap, he doesn’t fret when left alone or with strangers, is not convinced that the ‘best place to be…’ is with us, and would much rather be/play with other dogs.  This becomes a big problem when he starts to get aggressive with them.

So our advice was to try to improve our relationship by playing and bonding with him, which we’ve been doing for about four months with no noticeable change in our relationship or his behaviour. All walks are on lead or long line and contact with other dogs is avoided. I’d like to get to a stage where I can let him off lead knowing he’ll come back to me even if he meets another dog, but we’re not there yet.

So, my question is, does the diagnosis of a poor relationship sound plausible, and can any-one share some techniques for improving it?

CJ

[/quote]i think my dog likes me .
i dont really know

[Author]

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