Bad relationship

[Dree]

[quote author=.dodger. link=topic=12456.msg241427#msg241427 date=1221768550]
maybe a split topic is needed for the training debate and for cjane’s original problem. :agree:
[/quote]

Well, I’m off-line as from tonight, so won’t be able to respond to anyone.  🙁  So no need to split on my account, cos I won’t be here for over a week.

[Izzie]

Unconditioned Response – UCR

Unconditioned Stimulus – US

[.dodger.]

thanks for that izzie – that got me lost too 🙂

[SuzAndTheDiva]

lalalala I knew what that was  :yes:  ;D sometimes i do listen!

[Dree]

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=12456.msg241449#msg241449 date=1221769268]
Unconditioned Response – UCR

Unconditioned Stimulus – US
[/quote]

Thanks.  I think I responded to thatin another post???  :crazy:

[*Lassie*]

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=12456.msg241449#msg241449 date=1221769268]
Unconditioned Response – UCR

Unconditioned Stimulus – US
[/quote]

Sorry Izzie I’m thick, I don’t understand what that means. Can you explain in laymans terms and give an example of both please?

[.dodger.]

[quote author=Dree link=topic=12456.msg241454#msg241454 date=1221769436]
Thanks.  I think I responded to thatin another post???  :crazy:
[/quote]

too many posts to keep up with 🙂

[Izzie]

[quote author=.dodger. link=topic=12456.msg241451#msg241451 date=1221769343]
thanks for that izzie – that got me lost too 🙂
[/quote]

Write them down Laura, you are going to need them soon!  😉

CR Conditioned Response
CS Conditioned Stimulus

[.dodger.]

lol will do izz thanks for the tip :-* ;D

[*Nick*]

multi-tasking?!  not that old nugget again ladies  :whatever:

I can multitask…I drive a transport truck and I can turn a corner, downshift gears, blow the air horn and yell at some stupid car driver all at the same time thank you very much!  :canadian:

In a mans world what is going on here in this thread is what we would call “measuring dicks”  :yes:

there is nothing, I repeat nothing to be learned here  :happy: :tease:

[Dree]

[quote author=SuzAndTheDiva link=topic=12456.msg241421#msg241421 date=1221768184]
Still confused but Bev maybe you help me out here.

I agree a stop is a stop a down is a down I would NEVER use a down as a stop cue for this following reason.

Honey doesnt like fireworks -this time last year was only her stop cue that stopped her being killed………she jumped out my arms dragged a lead away from me and shot into the road – stop and recall was only thing that stopped her being smashed to pieces on the road…..if id downed her as a stop – by time shed got up car would of hit her……….by more luck than anything she listened to both cues and got her arse back onto the pavement…………….maybe thats the wrong way of looking at it……….but for me stop means stop – dead right where you are, then if possible i will throw in another cue – sometimes works sometimes doesnt, i confess shes as good as i can get her……….shes far from perfect..

I dont like to add too much – my training efforts are way below everyones, we dont really do training – but she does have an ok stop –  :ok:
[/quote]

And I stopped my first dog from being run over on a busy road by shouting Down as she ran across it in a panic attack.  (A completely different thread!!  ;D)  She lay there, and when it was safe, I called her to me.  So it depends on the dog, the handler….and the circumstances.  🙂

[SuzAndTheDiva]

if id downed her shed have been a laying target. so yes guess some does depend on circumstances – but would still rather have a stop – and then follow it up with whatever cue, than rely on a down – or a sit even which wouldnt always be appropriate – i say stop she stops, (most times!) and looks to cue – wrong or right not sure – bev it good she does that or…….works for me because shes focussing on me not whatevers just paniced the life out of her  :-\

[Dree]

[quote author=piglet link=topic=12456.msg241271#msg241271 date=1221740164]
right – i think i have it !

Dree – Apologies, from your posts I had a completely different interpretation!  As Izzy says you are using the down as a stop cue and then leashing her and avoiding other dogs.  Just out of interest – what do you do when other peoples annoyingly mis-behaved dogs race up to her (happens all the time to me)?

Dree – Bonnie isnt naughty, she followed every cue I gave her.  Claire x
[/quote]

I put her on a lead in that first instance, and a few others.  I never had to put her on a lead for long.  I could drop her, and recall her.  And the actual “attack mode” did not take long to extinguish.  When out walking now, I have four dogs with me.  They are all put in a down, which does not bother them at all.  (Nell because she knows nothing will happen….I have never, ever betrayed that trust.)  If an “iffy” dog comes up, I don’t have a problem.  It takes one look at the two dogs, which are looking at it with a “We’re up for it” look, and decides it’s outnumbered!!  Both dogs just look at problem dogs, and the problem dog lowers its threatening posture, and sod off, trying to maintain dignity in defeat!  ;D  BUT….if I had Nell with me on my own, I put her behind me.  I never allow a dog near her.

I didn’t mean it about Bonnie…..I know she isn’t naughty really.  🙂

[Anonymous]

Dree – its ok 🙂  she is what people think of as “naughty” on some occasions – when i first got her she was incontinent and on top of that seemed to have a taste for organic things that werent really food (e.g. cut flowers + flower food) aaah they were the days eh guys !!  coming home with a 4mth old to a house full of poop and sick – it all seems so long ago now !!

which leads me nicely back to the thread !!  you will crack this CJ – you might have to search deep sometimes gawd knows i did with Bonnie and Misty too but you will crack it and my doG it’ll be like walking on air 🙂

Claire x

[Dree]

Okay.  Off on our hols first thing in the morning.  So I’ll bid you all goodnight.  See you soon.  🙂

CJ.  Whichever way you decide to train your dog, I wish you all the best.  Just a quick thought.  I do what I call back to basic training sometimes when I go to a client.  I take on board what is happening outside, and what I suggest is this.  (This is just something to think about.)  Train your dog.  Train everything you think you will need.  Sit, down, stand, stop, come, watch, heel, etc., etc.  Proof it in the house, proof in the garden, proof in a safe place, proof in the park with no dogs.   AND find the reward that is highest from the dog’s perspective…..and then find out how to scale your rewards….as in, example, chuckit is highest, ball thrown is next down, garlic sausage is next down, etc.  DO NOT place the criteria for your dog too high when you decide to try one or any of these exercises outside.  Once you have a very well trained dog who does everything you want first time on his own…and then, hopefully, with one friendly dog about…..THEN you can decide to go for a walk with dogs around.  What I find A LOT is that the relationship with the owners has already turned around before they go for that important walk.  Because during all of that training…..proofing it, scaling the rewards on how well the dog performs (once he knows what he’s doing)…..changes the relationship.  The owner is now confident, where before they were not.  And because of that confidence, the problems that happened outside *don’t happen*….because the owner has everything in place.  Of course, it all might go t*its up, but when you have that amount of training in place, and therefore that amount of control…..the difficult problem is not so difficult.  The rewards for the initial training are the key to the relationship.  Because in order to get the reward that it really, really wants, the dog has to do what is asked of it.  If it doesn’t do it, it doesn’t get the reward.  (Again, once the behaviour is taught.)  And when someone is in charge of the reward, the dog starts asking for the reward….and starts to *offer* behaviours.  That puts the control firmly in the hands of the person who is doling out the reward….the owner.  There is your relationship.  Simple, huh?? ;D  (And, yes, I know that that may be over-simplifying the matter…..but sometimes that’s all it takes.  Lots of basic training.)

Of course, you’ve probably done all the basic training!!!  ;D

Seriously, whatever you decide to do….all the best.  🙂

[Author]

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