cause and effect – conscious choice or not…

[kizkiznobite]

male sweetypye…. 🙂

[cjane]

Dogs will perform behaviours that have been successful in the past, I don’t think they have the capacity to plan a strategy, like ‘I’d like to get on that chair, if I go to the door and ask to get out then he will get up, that’s my chance to get my comfy seat back’.  But, if in the past the dog has whined at the door which caused his master to get up, thus allowing him on the chair, then it’s likely he’ll repeat it.

[kizkiznobite]

it had never been documented as a learned exp from the past – the dog’s master was as bemused as the guest…

[cjane]

So then I’d say it was opportunistic, asked to go out for a pee, saw his chance to get on the chair and took it. Was then happy that he got back on the chair.

[SuzAndTheDiva]

Hmmmm I dont know, do dogs actually plan in the same way we do ?

I think its highly possible the dog saw its chance and took it.

[cjane]

I think they problem solve rather than plan, largely through trial and error, like we use during free shaping.

[Kerry_and_Beau]

hows about…

dog needs a wee so whines at door, sees Master get up and realises that stranger is not moving, thinks i need to protect (couldn’t think of a better word) Masters chair and pack scent, runs to go sit on the chair and grins at master saying aint i clever  🙂

Beau will sit where i have sat if i get up and move, even if he is alreday on the couch he will move to my spot until i return  🙂

[Diesel73]

[quote author=cjane link=topic=11567.msg218710#msg218710 date=1211906240]
Dogs will perform behaviours that have been successful in the past, I don’t think they have the capacity to plan a strategy, like ‘I’d like to get on that chair, if I go to the door and ask to get out then he will get up, that’s my chance to get my comfy seat back’.  But, if in the past the dog has whined at the door which caused his master to get up, thus allowing him on the chair, then it’s likely he’ll repeat it.
[/quote]
And thàt is how i think dogs can learn to master strategicplanning up to a certain degree.
Diesel does it all the time. He learns through looking at what Wodan does, what moves Wodan, what makes Wodan tick. And he learned how to use it in his advantage.
Diesel wants to steal Wodan’s food? He eats the best parts fast, runs out the door, barks where the neighbour’s ladies are and voilà, Wodan just has to leave his food unattended. While Wodan is looking for the girls (that are not there) Diesel moves in to steal Wodan’s food. It is planned in advance. He looks where Wodan is, sees what Wodan’s got, gets a ‘f.ck off’ from Wodan and Diesel does this trick.
Diesel uses it in many ways, using different resources. He knows what Wodan prefers over food, spot in sofa, my side of the bed, and toys. And Diesel never makes the same mistake. So he learnd how to plan it in a very sneeky way. Find out what Wodan wants more and Diesel uses it against Wodan to gain what Diesel wants.

[GSPmad]

diesel sounds like duibh.  😉 and there is certainly some trial and error and ‘oh that works’ – but once he knows what works i am sure he does plan to some extent.  🙂

and dog in the question presumably already knew whining at door got master out of chair – so already had the learning in place about what he could do to get what.  🙂

am i making sense or am i just talking drivel?

but i am sure a girl dog would have been quicker about it.  ;D 😉

[*Lassie*]

and dog in the question presumably already knew whining at door got master out of chair – so already had the learning in place about what he could do to get what. 

am i making sense or am i just talking drivel?

You are making sense 😉

I agree with you, dog knew the master would move and he could get the chair back.
just another form of problem solving ;D

[kizkiznobite]

ok…so if you are thinking that it was a deliberate act….

then presumably you would agree that a dog is aware of the future and does not just live in the present ?
;D

[kizkiznobite]

the breed of dog been bugging me all night  ::) sorry – he was a manchester terrier  🙂 ::)

[Anonymous]

Not sure about this siruation but Cass does something quite often that i find a bit odd. In the evening when we are sitting down watching TV she will go to the back door and start crying to be left out the garden but as soon as i get up and open the back door for her she just walks off away from the door & lies down.

What’s all that about then?  :-\ ???

[Lucyr]

That gives everyone something to think about!

Our GSD’s (no longer with us) would be given a bone each in the garden…after a while they would always swap bones….
The male GSD would move out of site, put his bone in the deep water bucket then go sniffing at the bitches bone….she in turn would then think it must be time to swap give hers up and look for the males….
However, it was always known the bitch would not dunk her head!!
She was left with no bone and the male would then dunk his head whenever he wanted to get it out.
When he was bored of chewing on the bones he would put both in the water bucket and walk off!!!

Now would you think that this would have been planned??

[wags]

[quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=11567.msg219087#msg219087 date=1212051652]
he was a manchester terrier  🙂 ::)
[/quote]

😀 he didnt want to go out at all – just thought it was time to go to pub like  😉

[Author]

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