neutering – bit of a rant sorry!

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone! I’m sorry if this topic has come up too often… I thought it would be quite a common discussion on here but I had a good search and couldn’t find anything to read – knowing me I might’ve been doing it wrong though 😀

Right, my problem – 1 schnauzer (3 years) and 1 collie-x (18 months). Both are entire males and both are lovely boys with wonderful personalities. Until now I have felt no need to neuter, as they do not cause them or me any problems. Floyd (my schnauzer) has always been very interested in other dogs, and when I did doggy daycare and had girls (and sometimes even castrated boys) in the house, he would harrass them and sometimes get very over-excited to the point where I had to take him out, ’cause I was worried about him being too stressed. He has occasionally been grumbly with other boys if there’s a girl around, but this is very rare, and only if he’s been couped up indoors with other dogs. I have never been wary of letting him greet other dogs. In our daily lives, it really isn’t a problem. Sometimes Floyd harrasses our collie boy (Didz)  – he mounts him and nudges him and constantly chews his ear, and we joke that it’s almost like he’s practising his mating techniques on him, haha. I discourage him from doing it as poor Didz often looks quite miserable, sitting there being chewed on!

I don’t know what I’m asking really, maybe for some advice from experts on whether neutering is a good option, or whether I should stick with my instinct – that tells me to leave my boys complete, even though people keep telling me to get them ‘done’? I got turned down for a job at a dog training place recently, and I think it was because the interviewer was aghast that I owned grown-up dogs that weren’t neutered! When I tried to tell her I hadn’t had it done because they were growing and I wasn’t sure it was best for growing dogs to be neutered, she told me that was a very old-fashioned point of view, that it was cruel for boys to have to deal with urges they can’t satisfy, and that Floyd has occasionally been in fights because of his hormones, and now it’s “too late”. Too late to train a dog how to not be a dog? I don’t get it. My brain is full of pros and cons and I am most confused!  :surrender:

[Val]

It’s a bit late at night for a full answer on this topic I may get to type a fuller reply tomorrow.
There is nothing old fashioned about keeping dog together that have their testicles but you have to be a good pack manager, it sounds as if you are letting your schnauzer get away with too much.
My daughter has this breed (Mini’s) there is never any trouble or bum sniffing ear washing when she comes here and I have five entire girls she just has trained him to be well manners,
It always amazes me that some folks think that it’s fun to let one dog tease the underdog which is what your  schnauzer is doing but it still does not mean that castration is the answer to me it’s better training, if stud dogs that are shown were never trained there would be total mayhem at every dog show in the UK and some of those boys have to put up with bitches in season.
Also what the vet doesn’t tell you is if you castrate him it will wreck his coat and make him prone to putting on weight.
So in my view it’s all about training not whether he needs his nuts removed
Val 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Val (hi! :D) Coming back here has really woken me up – I’ve been reading through all the threads in the training forum again, and I know you’re right, I do let him get away with far too much. I’ve got really lazy with training and I’m finding myself just correcting them when they do something wrong… 🙁 I never wanted to be that kind of dog owner. I need to get a clicker and start again, right from scratch, with both of them. I need to try to visit this board more often!

[xtine]

can certainly vouch for the coat wrecking… if Floyd is stripped then he won’t be able to be for much longer after neutering that’s for sure… Fritz is now being clipped  :'( still looks handsome tho and Suz does a fab job as always, but is a shame  :boooo:

[Val]

Even if they are clipped with nuts you can get a better finish if the coat goes woolly which most do then they look like sheep in between cuts.
Other than for health reasons I can see no reason for spaying or castration if the dog is in the hands of a responsible dog owner.

Welcome back Gemsy pleased the board has given you the boost to start training again  :ok:
Val

[quote author=xtine link=topic=14922.msg273791#msg273791 date=1259263692]
can certainly vouch for the coat wrecking… if Floyd is stripped then he won’t be able to be for much longer after neutering that’s for sure… Fritz is now being clipped  :'( still looks handsome tho and Suz does a fab job as always, but is a shame   :boooo:
[/quote]

[Anonymous]

[quote author=xtine link=topic=14922.msg273791#msg273791 date=1259263692]
can certainly vouch for the coat wrecking… if Floyd is stripped then he won’t be able to be for much longer after neutering that’s for sure… Fritz is now being clipped  :'( still looks handsome tho and Suz does a fab job as always, but is a shame   :boooo:
[/quote]

Hi Xtine and Fritz! I saw your video of Fritz doing freeshaping last night, what a clever boy 😀 You guys have inspired me to get on with the clicker training. I remember having a talk with you guys about Floyd’s coat before, he’s got rubbish fluffy fur that has to be clipped anyway 🙁 – he’s a hairy beast at the moment – Suz and Val you would not be impressed. 🙁 And thanks again, Val. I do wish people wouldn’t keep telling me I should get them neutered, haha… I don’t generally tell other people what to do with their dogs unless they ask, and even then…

We did some clicker charging tonight; Floyd was most interested by the noise! Certainly did his best to impress – a sit, down, speak all in a row… oh dear. We’re going to have an adventure on our hands… Haha I’m wondering if I should start a new thread as this isn’t really about neutering anymore?  :-\ :-[ :-[

[Mudgie]

For my contribution Gemsy I would say that you are dealing with learned behaviours now and getting their nuts removed would change nothing in that.  You need to modify or retrain them in good manners.  Time to up your status and call time when appropriate – back to basics hun and get that bond strong again  😉  Nothing more rewarding that training and the feedback from the dogs and all it costs is time – not a nasty vets bill  😉

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mudgie! 😀 They have been getting away with murder lately. Is there a thread or anything with a complete list of good cues to use with the clicker?

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

I just wanted to share my experience of neutering my boy …

I had my collie/terrier boy from a rescue who does not castrate males only spey bitches and he was already 2 1/2 when I got him.  I should have castrated him straight away in the terms of my adoption but thought it was unlikely they would take him back off me and decided to do some looking into it.  I had pretty much made up my mind not to castrate him by the time he was about 4yrs old but I then started volunteering for rescues and stupidly gave in to all the people telling me i should have him castrated as it would settle down his mounting other dogs and make him less aggressive with male dogs.

It was the worst decision of my life and due to one or two fairly minor hiccups I actually came close to losing my dog and also lost my job due to the stress and everything.

He never stopped humping cushions or mounting other males and he was also never really comfortable with very male entire dogs (he wasnt ever aggressive – ppl just told me he was because he barked alot).

Sadly I lost him xmas eve at 10 years old but I can tell you he was humping my other dogs bed the day before !!!

My advice: do your research – make your decision …. right for your dogs and right for you.  If anyone asks you then you can be confident in your choices 🙂

Claire x

[Anonymous]

Thank you so much Claire! (Late reply, I know!) Sorry that you lost your boy. 🙁 He sounds like he was quite a character! Luckily my boys don’t tend to hump things, apart from the occasional dog. I haven’t given in and taken the plunge yet!

I’m so glad of this board and its support. I’ve never been one to do what other people tell me without researching everything and coming to my own conclusions, but the advice I get around here really is the best. The only thing is though, when I confidently tell people my reasons for doing things, they tell me it’s a load of codswallop, and I get more confused than ever. Like with the neutering, same with raw feeding and everything else. My sister-in-law is a trainee vet and has just had her lecture on raw feeding… *groooan*. She started telling me about the wonders of intestinal blockage and salmonella and that dogs aren’t wild any more and that by having entire unvaccinated dogs I’m listening to ‘Daily Mail scare tactics’… I try not to talk about it now.

:boooo:

It’s such a minefield, and so hard to know what’s best!

[Diesel73]

I get where you’re coming from Gemsy  ::) …. My tactic?

quote :

and I get more confused than ever. Like with the neutering, same with raw feeding and everything else. My sister-in-law is a trainee vet and has just had her lecture on raw feeding… *groooan*. She started telling me about the wonders of intestinal blockage and salmonella and that dogs aren’t wild any more and that by having entire unvaccinated dogs I’m listening to ‘Daily Mail scare tactics’…

1-neutering i’m vèry short about ‘i wanted a dog and got one. I wasn’t looking for a ‘cousin it’.
2-Salmonella and stuff ‘raw fed dogs have stronger stomach acid and can’t be compared with dogs that are fed raw only once’.
3-intestinal blockage… ‘ever seen a wolf disect and de-bone his chicken? I don’t think so’.
4-dogs aren’t wild anymore …’ nope they are domesticated wolfies but internaly still the same as in digesting system ànd brain. And they can turn wild again in an instant thus the Dingo’.

quote :

It’s such a minefield, and so hard to know what’s best!

I ditched that feeling when i found this board hahaha  😀 .

[Val]

Lets not forget Gemsy there is a large amount of money sloshing around the Vet Uni’s courtesy of dry food manufacturers.
And just think how much poorer you vet would be without the dog vaccines plus all the wormers and flea treatment they sell you at the same time they are sticking vaccines in
Val

[Author]

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