val..got booked with marylin!!!!

[Izzie]

Jan is gutted, her sis who is tiny and bad jaw came back with 38, her mum is 106  😮

Livs elbows came back as 1.

She still giving the offer of Geordi who has hips of 17, got a couple of other breeders telling me to breed, spoken to Bev who said I shouldnt uinless I get all the research on the lines, but hardly any  have been scored.

Breeder isnt pushing me to do anything except make a desicion.
POne of geordi’s daughter had a litter recently which was a lone pup who had a deformity to her tail, came out with tip of tail curled over, when the vet uncurled it, the bone was exposed and there wasnt any skin so he had to amputate

[Val]

106 and she was bred from good doG
This makes a bit of over marking nothing to worry about  :surrender: :order:
Elbows ! I would not worry on a heavy breed just take care not to draw a higher score in the male, I agree with Bev you will have to have some damd good hips on the sires side to even attempt breeding her.
I would also make sure the mouth was good thats easy to breed in beardies had that problem some still do.
IMO there has been a lot of careless breeding in Clumbers including by your breeder.
If she was mine and I was as young as you are I would not breed her but I would show her to get my name known or if I really wanted a litter I would go to working lines like Jackie has at least she health tests everything to my knowledge (I don’t know her personally) but that would be who I would ask not a breeder that has bred a bitch with 106 score thats not the way to save a breed.
Tail defects are in the genes so beware.
I think in the next five years the KC will have this breed outcrossing into the working stock anyway they have already done it in other breeds I think that breeders like Jackie will be at the forefront of the breed in the next ten years, like some older breeders in beardies they are coming to the forefront in beardies as they are not carrying AI problems I would be a rich woman if I had bred my girls thats for sure and Bob would not have a willy left the amount of phone calls I get for him and he’s never been in a showring and I only showed Jazz as a youngest LOL
Hope you find the answer
Val

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=15702.msg279430#msg279430 date=1301812163]
Jan is gutted, her sis who is tiny and bad jaw came back with 38, her mum is 106  😮

Livs elbows came back as 1.

She still giving the offer of Geordi who has hips of 17, got a couple of other breeders telling me to breed, spoken to Bev who said I shouldnt uinless I get all the research on the lines, but hardly any  have been scored.

Breeder isnt pushing me to do anything except make a desicion.
POne of geordi’s daughter had a litter recently which was a lone pup who had a deformity to her tail, came out with tip of tail curled over, when the vet uncurled it, the bone was exposed and there wasnt any skin so he had to amputate

[/quote]

[Izzie]

Jan has only recently been hipo scoring, so she didnt know until the same time as I found out with Livs.
there are 3 breeders in the uk who dont have tweedsmuir, oine of which has very low hips and elbows being brought out.

Have got one breeder who is trying to push me to breed and I havent made a desicion yet. The sire of Liv wasnt scored till after the mating, Cass’s sire wasnt scored at all he was xrayed but not submitted.

She admits she has been stupid and is hoping to make right with her line. I spoke to a breeder who works his clumbers, has low hip scores and 0 elbows who told me to stay away from the working stock as he suspects a few things arent quite on par in breeding/ rearing terms, but that I can breed the hips and elbows to a low scoring dog to get a better score although I can still get a dog with bad hips in the litter it wouldnt be as high or higher than Livs.

[quote author=Val link=topic=15702.msg279434#msg279434 date=1301856942]
106 and she was bred from good doG
This makes a bit of over marking nothing to worry about  :surrender: :order:
Elbows ! I would not worry on a heavy breed just take care not to draw a higher score in the male, I agree with Bev you will have to have some damd good hips on the sires side to even attempt breeding her.
I would also make sure the mouth was good thats easy to breed in beardies had that problem some still do.
IMO there has been a lot of careless breeding in Clumbers including by your breeder.
If she was mine and I was as young as you are I would not breed her but I would show her to get my name known or if I really wanted a litter I would go to working lines like Jackie has at least she health tests everything to my knowledge (I don’t know her personally) but that would be who I would ask not a breeder that has bred a bitch with 106 score thats not the way to save a breed.
Tail defects are in the genes so beware.
I think in the next five years the KC will have this breed outcrossing into the working stock anyway they have already done it in other breeds I think that breeders like Jackie will be at the forefront of the breed in the next ten years, like some older breeders in beardies they are coming to the forefront in beardies as they are not carrying AI problems I would be a rich woman if I had bred my girls thats for sure and Bob would not have a willy left the amount of phone calls I get for him and he’s never been in a showring and I only showed Jazz as a youngest LOL
Hope you find the answer
Val

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=15702.msg279430#msg279430 date=1301812163]
Jan is gutted, her sis who is tiny and bad jaw came back with 38, her mum is 106  😮

Livs elbows came back as 1.

She still giving the offer of Geordi who has hips of 17, got a couple of other breeders telling me to breed, spoken to Bev who said I shouldnt uinless I get all the research on the lines, but hardly any  have been scored.

Breeder isnt pushing me to do anything except make a desicion.
POne of geordi’s daughter had a litter recently which was a lone pup who had a deformity to her tail, came out with tip of tail curled over, when the vet uncurled it, the bone was exposed and there wasnt any skin so he had to amputate

[/quote]
[/quote]

[Val]

Stupid stupis girl you don’t shut the door after the horse has bolted GGgrrrrr
If there are three without Tweedsmuir then I would look at them an outcross is a good way to go.
I partly agree with the breeder who works his dogs,you would have to be careful about the pedigree’s but as for rearing you only want the loan of a willy so you need not be worried about rearing as you would be doing that.
But if there are these three breeders that are low scoring then thats the way to look.
As for his other comment you could get the mothers score which would be higher than Liv’s this is not an exact science else we would all have 0-0 hips its just that the Clumber breeders are not helping by not scoring.
At the end of the day these breeders that are scoring will still have to agree to take Liv with such a high score.
The quickest way to count hips is to add the sire and dams together then cut in half and that will be the average score in the litter and if you can go back at the very least to the grandparents both for health and type
What I do not understand is how your breeder is acreditted she is breaking every rule going plus her adverts are full of down right lie’s
If you want to send me pedigree’s I will look but as you know I ain’t no expert on Clumbers
ValX

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=15702.msg279438#msg279438 date=1301860033]
Jan has only recently been hipo scoring, so she didnt know until the same time as I found out with Livs.
there are 3 breeders in the uk who dont have tweedsmuir, oine of which has very low hips and elbows being brought out.

Have got one breeder who is trying to push me to breed and I havent made a desicion yet. The sire of Liv wasnt scored till after the mating, Cass’s sire wasnt scored at all he was xrayed but not submitted.

She admits she has been stupid and is hoping to make right with her line. I spoke to a breeder who works his clumbers, has low hip scores and 0 elbows who told me to stay away from the working stock as he suspects a few things arent quite on par in breeding/ rearing terms, but that I can breed the hips and elbows to a low scoring dog to get a better score although I can still get a dog with bad hips in the litter it wouldnt be as high or higher than Livs.

[quote author=Val link=topic=15702.msg279434#msg279434 date=1301856942]
106 and she was bred from good doG
This makes a bit of over marking nothing to worry about  :surrender: :order:
Elbows ! I would not worry on a heavy breed just take care not to draw a higher score in the male, I agree with Bev you will have to have some damd good hips on the sires side to even attempt breeding her.
I would also make sure the mouth was good thats easy to breed in beardies had that problem some still do.
IMO there has been a lot of careless breeding in Clumbers including by your breeder.
If she was mine and I was as young as you are I would not breed her but I would show her to get my name known or if I really wanted a litter I would go to working lines like Jackie has at least she health tests everything to my knowledge (I don’t know her personally) but that would be who I would ask not a breeder that has bred a bitch with 106 score thats not the way to save a breed.
Tail defects are in the genes so beware.
I think in the next five years the KC will have this breed outcrossing into the working stock anyway they have already done it in other breeds I think that breeders like Jackie will be at the forefront of the breed in the next ten years, like some older breeders in beardies they are coming to the forefront in beardies as they are not carrying AI problems I would be a rich woman if I had bred my girls thats for sure and Bob would not have a willy left the amount of phone calls I get for him and he’s never been in a showring and I only showed Jazz as a youngest LOL
Hope you find the answer
Val

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=15702.msg279430#msg279430 date=1301812163]
Jan is gutted, her sis who is tiny and bad jaw came back with 38, her mum is 106  😮

Livs elbows came back as 1.

She still giving the offer of Geordi who has hips of 17, got a couple of other breeders telling me to breed, spoken to Bev who said I shouldnt uinless I get all the research on the lines, but hardly any  have been scored.

Breeder isnt pushing me to do anything except make a desicion.
POne of geordi’s daughter had a litter recently which was a lone pup who had a deformity to her tail, came out with tip of tail curled over, when the vet uncurled it, the bone was exposed and there wasnt any skin so he had to amputate

[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

[Izzie]

Fanks Val, am going to out cross completely and use a sire that has no relations to Livs whatsoever.

Have sat and thought about it and talked to people not only in my breed but in others and I will do the best for my girl and the pups, if I decide to breed.

Its a lot to take on board!

[Val]

As long as the dog of choice is up to the mark and fully health checked back  to grandparents I think you will do OK
Some of my best pups have been born from outcrosses
Good Luck
Val

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=15702.msg279510#msg279510 date=1302559161]
Fanks Val, am going to out cross completely and use a sire that has no relations to Livs whatsoever.

Have sat and thought about it and talked to people not only in my breed but in others and I will do the best for my girl and the pups, if I decide to breed.

Its a lot to take on board!
[/quote]

[Author]

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