Windsor Champ Show

[Izzie]

TBH I have been looking at the overseas, there are a few in the states that I have been tempted with, but its the cost and the age of the pup that concerns me, as I like to have them as young as possible to train.

With regards to Livia, her last season where she was ill I didnt bother due to her illness and the timing of it all, it would have put extra unwanted stress on me and I wasnt for risking it then. Even now I am of the opinion that after what her mother went through its not worth the heartbreak to me if it went wrong.

There is a youngster come over to a friend’s kennels that I think is lovely but the lines have bad jaws on her side and if they use the dog I think they would use then its the extra bad jaws, bad eyes scenario.

[*Lassie*]

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=16469.msg284580#msg284580 date=1341145522]
Coiffeciant of inbreeding.

Its the percentage of inbreeding between dogs, so Livia’s is something like 15% the breed average is 17%
[/quote]

So a dog with breeding like Ami’s where her Grandfather on the sire’s side is also the Grandfather on the Dam’s side is most definitely a big No No 

[Izzie]

something like that, I am still getting my head round it all to be honest.

[*Lassie*]

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=16469.msg284584#msg284584 date=1341171880]
something like that, I am still getting my head round it all to be honest.
[/quote]

Good Luck with it, don’t take much to confuse me now and never was any good with anything remotely connected to maths :confused: 

[Val]

Easiest way to look at it if the dogs on both sides are all healthy then it’s not too bad but if one dog behind those granfathers is unhealthy, then you have doubled the problem.
What a lot of breeders these days never seem to remember is the siblings they will also carry whatever is the problem sometimes it’s hard to track as most dogs go as pets unless the pet owner tells the breeder then how are they suppose to keep pure pedigree’s?
In my youth most breeders had big kennels and they kept a lot of their pups the real pets went but out of a litter of say six they would run on four.
In those days it was much more common for a person wanting a show pup of good breeding to buy them up tp a year old.
I would not worry Izzie about the age I brought some of my best roughs as adults some I only had to give a pup back out of the first litter, My Twiggy was one of those she had seven pups gave the breeder back one of the dog pups and she brought another she went to live in Aussie and made both of them Champions so I breed two Aussie Ch rough collies LOL
You have a problem because Clumber health is not great, they have a small gene pool and a lot of not nice breeders all backed up by a weak and wooly KC.

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=16469.msg284584#msg284584 date=1341171880]
something like that, I am still getting my head round it all to be honest.
[/quote]

[Izzie]

most of the foreign dogs go back to raycroft and leybels.

I know the swedes are doing something right as they are breeding better hips, but on the otherside of the coin they also have the jaw and eye issue to sort out.

I just want the clumber breeders to health test because there isnt a true sign as to what is going on re Clumbers and health.

I dont know Val, at the moment its so much to read up on and look at, i have spoken to a number of good breeders (ones who health test) both in clumbers and other breeds and am getting back different opinions – which is great on one hand, but so much more confusing on the other.

I want to do right by the breed and Livia is my priority, besides I am pretty sure she doesnt want to as every single boy she meets – even the ones she knows and adores- if they go near the back end, she sits down. Apart from Cubert which would be the ultimate test really.

I cannot afford to bring in a foriegn dog to use on Livia, and I am not keen on the idea of having the rabies jab done on her to breed her.

I would never make a big breeder, but then I wouldnt want too  :-\

[Val]

As I said a weak and woolly KC they chose to pick 15 breeds instead of health testing all breeds before registering.
The one reason I did not buy another Rough was because the breeders had their heads up a**es the breed was mainly untested and was also shrinking in size with all the judging being the head.
I wanted a Pastoral breed so I brought a beardie they were health testing even more the BVA they did eyes which we have never had a problem with but tested just in case as a beardie breeder you cannot advertise pups with any of the clubs or put an advertisment for your kennels in the yearbook without hip scores BUT you can sell any pups on the KC site I would love to know how that helps a breed.
Same as the pekes there are only the top two showing and winning and selling pups the rest of us have given up whats the point in fighting your own governing body.
I joined the Canine Alliance when it first started as I think they are the last hope for pekes
The breed won’t die out we will just stop registering pups with the KC out of all the breeds I have owned my pekes have been a hardy bunch as the breeders do not on the whole breed out of crap unlike the clumbers who seem to breed anything to anything IMO they are mostly out for their own ends
You cannot save a breed unless you work together and in clumbers thats about the same time as hell freezing over.
Izzie why did you have to pick clumbers :surrender:

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=16469.msg284590#msg284590 date=1341271912]
most of the foreign dogs go back to raycroft and leybels.

I know the swedes are doing something right as they are breeding better hips, but on the otherside of the coin they also have the jaw and eye issue to sort out.

I just want the clumber breeders to health test because there isnt a true sign as to what is going on re Clumbers and health.

I dont know Val, at the moment its so much to read up on and look at, i have spoken to a number of good breeders (ones who health test) both in clumbers and other breeds and am getting back different opinions – which is great on one hand, but so much more confusing on the other.

I want to do right by the breed and Livia is my priority, besides I am pretty sure she doesnt want to as every single boy she meets – even the ones she knows and adores- if they go near the back end, she sits down. Apart from Cubert which would be the ultimate test really.

I cannot afford to bring in a foriegn dog to use on Livia, and I am not keen on the idea of having the rabies jab done on her to breed her.

I would never make a big breeder, but then I wouldnt want too  :-\
[/quote]

[Izzie]

I know bleeding gundogs  ::)

Cant help it Val, once you been clumbered you never can go to anything else!  :help: ;D

[Val]

I know once I was bearded all was lost 😀

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=16469.msg284595#msg284595 date=1341353589]
I know bleeding gundogs  ::)

Cant help it Val, once you been clumbered you never can go to anything else!  :help: ;D
[/quote]

[Izzie]

[quote author=Val link=topic=16469.msg284598#msg284598 date=1341432764]
I know once I was bearded all was lost 😀

[quote author=Izzie link=topic=16469.msg284595#msg284595 date=1341353589]
I know bleeding gundogs  ::)

Cant help it Val, once you been clumbered you never can go to anything else!  :help: ;D
[/quote]
[/quote]

bleeding dogs, come into your life, stomp all over your heart and the pawprints stay forever.  ;D

Am currently talking to Jackie Crawford, who is guiding me 🙂

[Val]

Am currently talking to Jackie Crawford, who is guiding me

Thats the best newsI have heard in a long time at least she cares about the breed and health  :agree:

[Izzie]

Benn talking to her and another breeder who health tests and been in the breed for years. But more so with Jackie recently

Its very difficult atm as there arent many pups about and a few people have now imported a few pups recently too

[Author]

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