Comparison of body language

[GSPmad]

A discussion and views, not fisticuffs please, cos I think it’s quite interesting. I see so many people going on, on various forums, about how wonderful Cesar Millan is, how he doesn’t bully the dogs  :-X and how the dogs are perfectly happy with what he does… and other people say to them – but look at the body language….  :'(

So views please – neither of these is CM I was just using that as an example – compare and contrast body language between these two videos…

First one:

[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEwiH8CeUE
[/youtube]

a dog that hated having nails cut being remodded (I think) using clicker (woman who owns dog uses word i loathe – dominance – but ignore that bit, is about dog’s body language once it gets there in the vid  ;D ). Compare and contrast behaviour, body language et al with….

Second one:

[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zAxHgGpvsDA
[/youtube]

Dog being “trained” to get on\ over obstacles using an e-collar.

My views are probably obvious – and I have my own thoughts on animals behaviour and body language….
which will keep to myself for the moment as am interested in other peoples.

Thoughts?  🙂

[Kerry_and_Beau]

why can’t i see the vids?

[kizkiznobite]

i can’t either but i think i have seen the clicker one before … but not sure

[GSPmad]

[quote author=Kerry_and_Beau link=topic=12766.msg246384#msg246384 date=1224689827]
why can’t i see the vids?
[/quote]

no idea.. have put them as youtube links using youtube button on here… and I can see them…  :-\

here are manual links if that helps…

video one:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEwiH8CeUE

video two:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zAxHgGpvsDA

[rona]

Can’t watch. Breaks my heart

[Anonymous]

wow !!

the “nigel mansell” of dog training … no tone, no emotion, no wonder he cant train using a clicker 😀

claire x

[Kerry_and_Beau]

watched them now have one word …. feel free to discuss w@nker  :ok:

but yeah the body language says it all  :yes:

[Foxisle_crazy]

There’s an even worse video from this company, with a pit bull. Now that is a stressed dog  🙁

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DHAQkT4C9VA

[.dodger.]

i hate it. at around 3.40 in the second vid it was just distressing to watch him yank the dog up by it’s collar to get onto the chair :'( i just don’t get the whole process of the e-collar? At what point in that ‘training’ was he using the collar??

[GSPmad]

He’s got the thing in his hand and my guess is he was using “negative reinforcement” ie shocking until dog was on objet then stopping – but I may be wrong.

[deebee]

Max hates being dried, was forced i suppose.
its raining outside and want to walk him and then towel dry him but he gets mega stressed. tried once and stopped and got my walls covered in muddy water lol.

this thread made me think. have just had a clicker session and finished with me rubbing the towel on his chest and touching his back (his worst place that i have tried). he got it and calmed down immediately, though i didnt push it.

think i could do that with a shock collar?  naah.

[GSPmad]

OK – not that interesting as a subject for discussion then.  :-\

[*Lassie*]

[quote author=GSPmad link=topic=12766.msg247065#msg247065 date=1224978618]
OK – not that interesting as a subject for discussion then.  :-\
[/quote]

The first vid the dog was happy and relaxed most people could pick that up. On the second vid the dog wagged his tail and seemed to comply with the ‘trainer’, a lot of people  wouldn’t pick up on the signs of stress – the licking of the lips and the tension in the body, the fear of the last chair :(. What is easier for people to pick up is the human body language, the first was calm and quiet but praised and treated when the dog did what was required but the second one marched around as if the dog wasn’t there – he even had to ask the sex of the dog. There was no reward for the dog when he did comply 🙁
I have seen dogs make a big fuss of ‘trainers’ and everyone thinks it’s because the dog loves them, what they don’t notice is the body language of the dog – tail up it’s arse, ears flat against it’s head, shoulders dropped so the body is close to the floor :nono: and they are quite happy to follow the trainers methods as the dog just loves the trainer ::)

[SuzAndTheDiva]

dunno bout discussing it my pc crashed just trying to look at this – darent look at the vids think my pc needs a sort out – again  ::)

[quote author=GSPmad link=topic=12766.msg247065#msg247065 date=1224978618]
OK – not that interesting as a subject for discussion then.  :-\
[/quote]

Is probably just not many people have seen it – hadnt come up on my unread list before……think everyones busy right now too – been quiet last few days.

[Diesel73]

quote :

Is probably just not many people have seen it – hadnt come up on my unread list before……

Mine neither  :confused: .

Second vid….. Dog doesn’t like nor trust him.

The way he says stuff, moves around and drags the dog on the chair alone. Not to mention the Ecollar….. Can tell you for 99,9% what he can be like when he got a dog with character on his hands and nobody’s watching  ::) .

You got to be blind if you can’t see the difference between the dogs in both vids.

[Author]

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