Dougs itchy skin

[parsonsmum]

As requested Kiz…..I’ll start from the beginning and try and keep it concise.
It started about 7 years ago when Doug was 2ish, with a red sore bald patch on tail.
Used a soothing cream and it cleared up.
Every year since then the problem has recurred…..usually starts late summer, lasts about 6-8 weeks and is gone by October.
Over the years, I’ve called it his ‘seasonal allergy’ and controlled it with creams……Dermacton is the current one I’m using.

This year the ‘itch has gone out of control, starting early summer and it’s still on-going now. Bald areas on tail, back, flanks and red sore belly.
I had to resort to the vets, as Doug was beginning to actually break the skin. We set of on an elimination route. I found fleas on one of the other dogs, but none on Doug so that’s where we started.

August
1) Treated for fleas with diatomacious earth and the house and car were sprayed with Acclaim. Flea problem dealt with.
Doug still itchy so I gave Piriton, but it had little effect.

2)Vet said it was NOT a parasite or mites problem with Doug as it didn’t look like it could be. ???

September
3)Doug has a steroid jab to try and break the itch/scratch cycle. He was itch free and his bald patches seemed to be recovering but 3 weeks later it all started again.
4) 10 day course of Prednicare, which worked quickly but 4 days after he finished the pills……..
5)Itchy again and now scratching his muzzle and his ears. Back to vets.

October
6)Advocate to rule out any mites/fleas/worms.  Ears checked,…….all clean and clear. Anal glands checked……1 was O.K. the other the contents not quite the right colour and a bit”gritty”. Possible precursor to infection.
Another 10 days of steroid.

Again the steroids quelled the itch till the course was finished then it ‘back again.

7)Start using Malaseb shampoo 2-3 times a week and 2 weeks of Ceporex ABs as the skin was infected in parts.

November
Itching has stopped, but I notice Doug is loosing a LOT of hair, far more than ever.
The hair on his chest and flanks particularly is very thin.

December
Vets…..heart /lungs healthy, normal temp, anal glands O.K. ears clean and healthy.
Doug is still itchy but skin not infected. Blood taken for allergy testing…….basically because the vets can only offer steroids, and there was a small chance the testing would point to something I could eliminate from his diet :-\

Today
Allergy test results…. Scores between 0 for low-5 for high.

Beef…..3
Lamb….1
All other meats/poultry…..0

Cows milk ….2

White fish/ whole egg/all cereals…..0

Outdoor allergens(pollen)
Beech…..1
Horse Chestnut…..1
All others ….0

Indoor allergens
Storage mites….0
House dust mites….0
Moulds….0
Flea….0
Cat dander…..1 (we have 2 cats )

Sarcoptic mange……negative
Malassezia……4
Staphlococcus…..5

The vet talked me through the results and said there was nothing really that would cause Dougs skin condition.
The malassezia and staph results are high but they are secondary to the skin problem, they are a result of his skin condition not a cause of it.

It was a new vet to the practice that called me with the results and he advised…..
Steroids. I said no, as they work for the length of the course and then it all comes back again.
Continue with the malaseb shampoo twice a week.
Hypo-allergenic prescription food for 3 months then gradually re-introduce his normal food to try and pinpoint what could be causing the itch.
Again I said no. I explained I don’t feed processed food, although I didn’t actually say RAW! Just said human grade meat.
He was very accomodating and offered to write out an elimination diet for Doug based on the food I feed. I have to wait a few days as he’s just joined the practice and all his books are in storage. I’ll see what he comes up with!

[kizkiznobite]

an elimination diet? he isnt showing any real food allergy to eliminate  :-\

certainly would not have used advocate on a dog with iffy skin problem that is on going…

did they take a skin scrape at any point?

also…seems over use of mal shampers to me too….this in itself could be causing a reaction….my falkor reacted to it with the sort of symptoms you describe

this is one the possible side affects on the caution info

Sometimes a dog’s skin will be too sensitive for this particular medication and will develop an allergic reaction. Symptoms include hives or redness all over the animal’s body. Your dog’s body will release too much histamine, which causes excessive itching. In very severe allergic reactions, swelling of the face, throat or nose may occur–which could quickly turn into an emergency. An allergic reaction to Malaseb shampoo, regardless of its severity, should always be checked out by a veterinarian.

the groomers would be better at rec another shampoo but i would go for something really mild like an aloe vera one…a client with a JR that had become flea dirt sensitive had huge success with baby shampoo with added oatmeal…

the fact it late in the season when he starts this suggests to me something like harvest mites….
i use a sulphur cream…it works really well on strep/staph/malassezia

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/new-Johnsons-SKIN-EZE-sulphur-CREAM-cats-birds-etc-/180688012423

this is the one i use …can buy it at most pet shops

the malassezia is a yeast fungus….so getting rid of yeast in the diet is generally rec and adding live yoghurt to the diet will help….but you dont seem to be feeding much if any yeast…

i would boost his immune system with vit e and selenium…knock the mal shampoo on the head and use a different one like above…up the live yoghurt…use the sulphur cream for topical application…add oil to the diet

[parsonsmum]

Yes that puzzled me a bit…. the elimination diet ???
Again I was bamboozled into the Advocate, to take fleas/mites out of the equation.
No they didn’t take skin scrapes…..just said it looked nothing like a parasite reaction in the skin.

Well I wasn’t warned about the side effects of mal shampoo. >:( I was given a white bottle with the instuctions to use twice a week. In fact the vet that prescribed it said to use it daily for the 1st week.

I’ve tried various shampoos in past years…..coal tar, oatmeal, sulphur…….the oatmeal one was more successful,…. and this year I’ve tried Dermacton shampoo bar and the Dermacton cream. They did soothe Dougs skin a bit, but I stopped them when the vet said to use the mal.
http://www.aromesse.com/skin-problem/petnat-itchy-skin-relief-dermacton-cream-spray-shampoo-dog-canine.html

I’ll try and get some of the sulphur cream. I bought a Johnsons ”Tea Tree Skin Calm spray” to try too. Haven’t used it yet, as I’m using the dermacton at the moment.

I’ve got selenium and vit e, so will give that. Should I give it now or wait till he’s finished the ABs?

O.K. to give him Bionic Biotic once the ABs are finished?
http://www.poochandmutt.com/bionicbiotic/

[kizkiznobite]

dont use t tree would be my advice…falkor had only to rub against another dog that had it on and he would react…

would boost now…the biotic ok to give but as i said oats are a real good pre and post biotic and live yoghurt good…use what you have then save your money…

have never used the dermacton…but if it worked??

[parsonsmum]

O.K. I’ve always got a sack of oats here…..to make birdfood cakes for the wildlife. ::)
Yeah the Dermacton definately soothes the skin, but it has to be applied several times a day……eases the itch but doesn’t get rid of it.

Dougs chest is bad tonight….where they shaved him for the GA. It’s looking a bit wet. 🙁

[kizkiznobite]

ouch….poor boy…that is a lymphatic reaction…it on paw yes?

[parsonsmum]

No, his shaved leg is fine it’s a big patch on his chest that’s weeping.

[kizkiznobite]

ok…tell me where on the chest exactly…will explain where to send fluid to…

as in front 4 inches from neck 2 inches from under arm ( as in under front leg haha)

[parsonsmum]

[img width=468 height=351]http://i44.tinypic.com/2v0bz3p.jpg[/img]

You can see the left side of his chest/neck. The right side is O.K. but it looks a bit bald ‘cos the hair is only just regrowing after they shaved him to take blood from the jugular vein for the allergy test.

[kizkiznobite]

ok…

first…bath the wound with an antiseptic solution…savlon wash….mild tcp wash…sea salt wash and pat dry

then

lymphatic massage…you go one way only to the nearest drain point…as in nearest group of lymph glands…so i would go down to the inner groin…5 mins..use tips and heel of your hand with only moderate pressure and push gently and slowly in the one direction towards the inner groin…

when you done you can apply savlon type antiseptic cream if you have any…

and try and stop him rubbing or trying to lick it…if he bothering it…stick a towel round his neck or put a clean t shirt on him…

[parsonsmum]

I’m a bit confused, when you say inner groin, as in near his hind legs?
The weeping bit is on his neck. I’ve bathed it and put cream on so it looks a bit white in this pic.
Doug looks a bit bewildered ‘cos he was asleep and I woke him up to take the shot!
[img width=468 height=351]http://i39.tinypic.com/2i0avzn.jpg[/img]

[Sweetypye]

Caution, Savlon can cause problems for some dogs

Cetostearyl alcohol may cause local skin reactions
Propylhydroxybenzoate may cause allergic reactions (possibly delayed).

Better to use something like Phytobalm by Hilton Herbs, or Calendula Cream you can get from Boots or Aloe Vera Gel which is soothing and cooling.

Live yoghurt may not survive the trip through the stomach so you may be better off using probiotic capsules which are enterically coated to survive the trip and do not have unwanted stuff (that is in Bionic Biotic)

You will need one that has several billion bacteria of at least 3 types.

Healthspan do a very good one and it does not need refrigerating. It has 20 billion of 5 types.

http://www.healthspan.co.uk/pre-probiotics/super20-probiotic/productdetail-p3196965-c131.aspx

As for the yeast overgrowth, do you feed ANY carbs at all? If you feed raw I would imagine not, but some people do, if so cut them out.

[kizkiznobite]

thanks SP…was hoping you would pick up this thread….the only carbs i could see on the food list was bonio biscuit and whatever is in any veg/fruit…narnies for example…
have never had a dog react to mild savlon wash…but yep my OH does…  😀

think i will try that pro bi on my ted…thanks for the link… have always been wary of buying it in tab/cap/powder form because of all the stuff in them…what dose do you use? ted is about 32K and now stuggling to keep weight on him

yep…PM i would send to the inner groin as the under front leg pit glands are prob a bit inflamed….

[parsonsmum]

Thanks SP. 🙂

I’ve been using a saline solution to bathe the skin and then Dermacton cream,…..it’s looking a lot calmer today and he’s not scratching it now.

This is my plan….
when he’s finished his ABs in a few days, I’ll give the Bionic biotic for a month, then I’ll get him some some capsules.
I’ve already started the vit e and selenium……how long should I give those for?

Regarding the carbs…..it’s the bonio and he was getting a small handful of terrier mixer bics, which I’ve been slowly reducing over the last week or so, so I’ll stop them completely.

I didn’t do the lymphatic massage last night….it was late and I didn’t fully understand how to do it. :-[

[kizkiznobite]

i would boost for at least a month and then review…he has had some stress hits to his immune system…the steroids anti bis GA etc etc
glad he not scratching…has the shaved area stopped weeping?
there are carbs in fruit and veg the general rule is the more green the veg the less carbs…my lot love spinach and broccoli….and sprouts….ami will do anything for a raw sprout haha….you should be ok to up his veg/fruit with carbs in once his skin gets better…. if you like giving him fruit and veg…
he looks a little bit porky  😉 so no biccies will help him lose a bit of weight  🙂

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