Re: German Shepherd diet hijack

[Anonymous]

[quote author=Sweetypye link=topic=12345.msg238931#msg238931 date=1220372413]
For those of you who may be unfamiliar with Serotonin the process is this:

The body converts the amino acid tryptophan into 5 HTP which is then converted to serotonin.

Bananas, milk, grapefruit, nuts, eggs and turkey are all sources RICH in tryptophan, there are others
[/quote]

Goodness me – you can use Wikipedia. But, as usual, a little knowledge (or in your case a little Googling) is a very dangerous thing.

Let me tell you about specific DOG research. Wurtman – at Massechussetts Institute of Technology – showed that diets rich in protein tend to deplete trytophan. Further, carbohydrates increase the levels of trytophan.

Why? Because naturally occurring trytophan makes up between 1% and 1.6% of amino acids which make up protein. The other larger and more prevalent amino acids compete with trytophan to cross the brain-blood barrier – the result is that the trytophan is blocked out.

However, a diet with higher carbohydrate values produces insulin. Insulin diverts the other amino acids into muscle tissue. Trytophan isn’t affected by insulin. For increased movement of trytophan to occur protein values must be kept low and carbohydrates comparatively high. A percentage of protein in excess of 18% of the carbohydrates stops trytophan crossing the brain-blood barrier (in humans). The research done on dogs indicates the same sort of percentage applies.

So whereas you are quite right that those things will produce serotonin – unless your dog gets carbohydrates that serotonin isn’t going anywhere.

Clear enough?

And as a side effect it’s also been proven that the excess protein diet (because it depletes serotonin) showed that territorial, aggressive dogs with a strong component of fearfulness responded beneficially to a reduced protein diet.

[Anonymous]

Shall we try again?  :surprise:

Which is the large security firm your wife presided over and in what capacity?

What do you actually want?

What dogs do you have?

What do you feed your dogs?

Are they involved in Schutz?

Do you have an ulterior motive?

What age have your dogs lived to?

What health systems do you follow to keep them in shape?

Are you a pet food salesman?

[Anonymous]

C’mon Phil, those are nice simple ones. You don’t need to Google them.  😉 You must know if you have a dog.

[Anonymous]

[quote author=Sweetypye link=topic=12345.msg238939#msg238939 date=1220375571]
You can give your OWN pets homeopathy, massage, acupuncture etc etc etc

Thousands do!

Now, please refute the Serotonin statement.

And there are so many questions we have asked you which you have still failed to answer.

Which is the large security firm your wife presided over and in what capacity, so we can verify your claims.

You have made many claims and not verified ONE of them.

Why not go back under thr bridge?!

:whatever:

You keep asking your questions and getting no response and we will do the same.

Trip Trap trip trap.

[/quote]

I’ve refuted the Serotonin statement – with correct medical facts.

However, I’m still waiting for YOU to come up with any verifiable FACT at all.

As far as what my wife did – she ran the South of England dogs for one of the large companies (I’m not saying which, because it’s irrelevant as she stopped working there over 10 years ago). Their policy was to bring in rescue dogs – they didn’t breed their own. The source they used for those dogs was also used (and still is) by the county police force.

Happy now?

[Anonymous]

What do you actually want? Simple, polite answers – as you can easily read at the bottom of the last posts I made

What dogs do you have? At this point – none. I’m waiting for a new dog at the moment.

What do you feed your dogs? Whatever I think best for them at the time

Are they involved in Schutz? No – it’s irrelevant.

Do you have an ulterior motive? Yes. I want to be able to generate a decent diet for my new dog – that’s proven and not a result of a load of old wives tales.

What age have your dogs lived to? The last one (GSD) 8 years – had a degenerative disease of the spine – possibly inherited. Prior to that a 16 yo dachshund

What health systems do you follow to keep them in shape? Normal exercise, regular health checks, diet according to need.

Are you a pet food salesman? No – as I’ve previously said – I’m trying to get evidence for a natural diet. All I’m actually getting is sweetpea trying to shout me down (probably because I’d think her dogs are freaks – see previous discussion on GSDs) and a shed load of stupidity.

So, as I’ve answered all your questions – answer mine – where’s the independent evidence of the value of a raw food diet?
[/quote]

[Kerry_and_Beau]

i have a question for you, totally irrelevant to all this, just wondering as at the moment i am feeling very very sorry for you….

do you believe in anything, do you ever put faith into anything without a ‘report’ telling you its ok? how did you meet your wife? was that arranged for you all set out neat and tidy? do you believe in god? how do you chose a dog?

ok several questions but all heading the same direction….you are missing something in your life and its a pretty huge something!  :suspious:

[Anonymous]

A life perhaps?

I always find it rather sad when someone is so desperate to be right about everything that they go on a pointless crusade for days on end. Especially when the person doing all the lecturing doesn’t even have a dog. lol

[Anonymous]

I have one last question Phil.

If you know so much better with your superior knowledge on diet than we do with all our old wives tales then why are still here? Why are you wasting your time with us?

You’re not going to get any different replies than you already have so why are you bothering? Do you think you are going to brainwash us into agreeing with you just to shut you up if you bang on about it  for long enough?

You don’t agree with us & we don’t agree with you, can’t you just leave it at that and stop being such a dreadful bore – because that’s what you are becoming now, just incredibly boring. You must have noticed by now that there isn’t a single person taking you seriously on this thread?

[Foxisle_crazy]

[quote author=PhiltheBear link=topic=12345.msg238955#msg238955 date=1220380373]

Are you a pet food salesman? No – as I’ve previously said – I’m trying to get evidence for a natural diet. All I’m actually getting is sweetpea trying to shout me down (probably because I’d think her dogs are freaks – see previous discussion on GSDs) and a shed load of stupidity.
[/quote]

:nono:

You obviously don’t know who sweetypye is or have seen her dogs? Otherwise you wouldn’t have said that

[*Lassie*]

Animal Welfare act

Criminal prosecution

There are a number of offences under the Act which can lead to a criminal prosecution.  The main offences are:

   * Causing an animal to suffer unnecessarily.
   * Administering poison to an animal.
   * Arranging or attempting to arrange an animal fight, including publicising, taking money for entry to, or betting on such a fight.
   * Failing to ensure the welfare needs of an animal are met.
   * Selling an animal to a person under 16 years old who is not accompanied by someone aged 16 or over.
   * Allowing an unaccompanied person under 16 years old to enter a competition in which they could win an animal as a prize.
   * Obstructing a local authority inspector or police constable from exercising their powers under the Act.

If you are found guilty of an offence under the Act, you can be fined, sent to prison, have your animals taken away from you, and/or disqualified from keeping animals in the future.

The Act increases the penalties available for the most serious offences. The maximum penalty is imprisonment for up to 51 weeks, or a fine of up to £20,000, or both.

The law is specific. Only a qualified veterinary surgeon is allowed to treat animals. You can give your own animal ‘minor medical treatment’.
Giving supplements, flea treatment and using Rescue remedy is classed as minor but the way you have written it you make it sound like we shouldn’t even give garlic ::)

But I really want to be convinced – because common sense indicates that feeding non-processed foods ought to be better.

There are risks in everything in life but you seem to expect to find the ‘perfect’ diet, there is no such thing for humans so why do you expect to find one for a dog you haven’t got. You can try to buy everything organic but if the crops are grown by a road they can be contaminated by exhaust fumes.
You pay your money and take your choice – you can feed Bakers with all the E numbers, you can feed Naturediet if you can get it out of the packet or you can feed raw/home cooked but nobody can make the decision for you.  

[SuzAndTheDiva]

Phil ever consider trying another forum?

YOu clearly cannot answer my questions – why because it doesnt fit in with your research??

To be honest you lost any credibility in my eyes a long time ago – stop preaching and start discussing and you might find we have a lot to input – otherwise, I dont think anyones actually that interested anymore.  :nono:

[Sweetypye]

Actually there has only been a couple of studies involving tryptophan and protein and it was to do with specific behaviour ie territorial aggression.  As aggression is more complex than that it is not sound.

Secondly the experiment that people often quote when discussing the dangers of high protein diets was not a controlled one, it involved diets including tryptophan.

There is a case for behavioural modification purposes for feeding some dogs an extra carbohydrate meal with a Vitamin B6 (although most people now accept the complex is better) added for extreme cases however this has to do with a metabolism problem where dogs cannot metabolise tryptophan correctly.

My information does not come from Wikapeadia or any other web source unlike yours.

Some of us have actually studied nutrition, both animal and human (in my case, equine, canine and human).

My GSD is not a freak but a fabulous example of the breed both in physique and temperament. 

But I agree with Suz and Mark, we are all bored now, with your attempts to belittle the rest of us with your quasi scientific rubbish and lack of knowledge about GSD, titles and diet.

You remind me of that woman in the film Airplane, you know the one that everyone who sat next to committed suicide.

Why not join a forum where your half baked ideas and statements will not be challenged and you can be seen as the oracle (rather than the orifice)

[wags]

arnt you all glad i havent replyed to this thread  :tease:

[Kerry_and_Beau]

no i would have loved to have seen your reply  😀

[wags]

:nono:

i might get carried away

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