So we went to gundog trainng – and I have questions!

[Anonymous]

I took Loki along to watch/ kind of join in with a local gundog class in Suffolk and there are a couple of things I wanted to ask which came up whilst we were talking about Loki and watching him with the toher dogs (2 other entire males and one castrated male – all black labs)

1) She told me not to let him cock his leg/ mark  :surrender:
No-one ever said this to me before – was totallty floored and I was told that retreivers mustn’t – sooo  how on earth do I stop that! That’s how he wee’s!  I haven’t seen him do a normal one in months….

2) I was told to start using dummies with him – but that they aren’t toys.. but it is a game…  which I kind of get – but i also kind of don’t. How do I play a game with him with something that isn’t a toy?

Help much appreciated!

Incidentally – he loved it – he was really interested in the gunshot and dummy throw bit – just got to sort out our retrieveing!

But it has shown me that a dog like Loki needs to work – or to do something… so we going to start in earnest…even if we are a bit late…  :-[

[Izzie]

I only bring out the dummies when I am training Jess, we play retrieves with balls and various objects and she will carry with different objects, shapes, weights, etc

She can carry an egg without cracking it in her mouth.

Who have you gone with?

[Val]

As you know I know diddly squat about gundogs, but have done some agility in my younger days and dogs are not allowed to cock their leg in the rings when competing, so would think this is much the same if you think about it if one cocks his leg then everyone will cock to cover.
Think you need peeing on cue myself but I know a woman that knows more than me hope she answers as I would be interested in reading the reply.
As for the dummies they should be used only for training a proper working retreive I would think
Val

[Anonymous]

Izzie – thanks – so I should start training the retrieve with a ball or something first?  Leave the dummies for later?

The training is with Contender Gundogs – is v. local to my parents place in suffolk.

Val, I think you are right – I need peeing on cue again.. I did have it – but haven’t bothered to use the cue for ages as he been cocking his leg all the time.  :-[  I honestly never knew he shouldn’t  :-[
I’ve started this morning by only letting him pee the first time he tries to – then making him walk to heel all the way to the park.

But what about when am in the park – he is off scenting and marking – should I stop that too  ??? :-\

Will see what Bev says too  🙂

[Izzie]

Jess never had a proper retrieve, so I broke it down (rightly or wrongly) and backchained it.

She loves to retrieve but if we are out it is only tennis balls

At home she will get anything I ask her too, her lead, ball, toy, etc. I also reinforced the carry, of anything she could pick up- she then started to carry a small pot at college which had her treats in, so I captured that too.

I only introduced the dummy when she had a the retrieve with her ball and vairious other toys at C5, then I went back down and started again with the dummy.

[Anonymous]

I guess I should try back chaining? So would it be something like this:

1 – get him to hold ball in mouth in mouth
2 – get drop to hand
3 – get him to pick up ball from floor when I give command, then drop to hand
4 – throw ball a little way, get him to wait – then send to get ball etc?

Am sure that isn’t quite right…  ::)

[Izzie]

break it down further……

Remeber Bev’s post about the number of behaviours in a retrieve 😉

[Anonymous]

am going to hunt for the posts on retrieves  😀

Bev – what do you think about the weeing stuff  :-\

[dogloverwoooo!]

The only thing I can think of regarding weeing is same as Val said, I always tell owners not to let thier dog wee around the agility course or on the equipment!! If they want to go on and do comp stuff the dog can’t just wee when/where it likes  :nono:  ;D

[Anonymous]

What I tried this morning was this: allow first leg cock/ wee as normal – then no marking/ weeing allowed on lead after that until we get to park (ten mins walk).  Once off lead I let him do his usual thing – but have realised he does alot of scenting/ marking the whole time off lead in the park  :-\

Then once I put him back on lead it was no marking allowed at all – then I told him to go at one final tree before going home.

He picked it up very fast – and stopped trying to wee.  Do you think this will help?

What about off lead?! Am feeling like I’ve messed up my training up till now  :-[

Have just bought clicker gundogs tho – thanks Izzie  ;D

[kizkiznobite]

its what we did sarah….the wee on cue ….the go sniff….you cant have a dog working in the field that goes cocky leggy when sent out for a bird….if you use the dummies out in the field and make it exciting enough it will distract him from marking and you will start to get a repair …also add in a no wee cue….

the dummies are not toys …..but you have to motivate so you make it a big game and they always get put away….he will progress onto fur/feather dummies.he liked ami’s fur dummy..

and yep back train the retrieve  🙂

[Anonymous]

I know – is what we did ages ago , with the wee on cue – I just completely ignored t for a year  :-[

But was like magic today – can’t believe such quick results!  No weeing except when I allowed him – also noticed he walks better to heel and doesn’t try and scent while on lead now.

He still does alot while off lead tho  :-\  Can’t see how to get around that  ???

I have messed up the back chaining the retrieve already  :-[

[kizkiznobite]

if you motivate him out in the field ….do the best place to be unless i say so stuff again …you will get some natural repair as you have already….slow it down a bit hun…work on it gradually….he needs reminding that’s all…he has had a lot of extinction…it will come

why do you think you have messed up the back chaining?

[Anonymous]

ok – so I tried to get him to hold the toy in his mouth… then I clicked when he did and he dropped it to eat the treat… so after that he would hold and immediately drop the toy  :-[

[Anonymous]

right. My clicker gundog book has arrived [grin] and we went to the class again and Loki was a very good boy [grin]

Retrieving still rubbish at the class – but he managed it 5 times in a row at home – in the garden with Leon with a tennis ball – so one day at a time I guess  🙂

What I also find fascinating is that we were there with two entire males – and they all got on very very well. Amazing to watch the properly trained gundogs doing their thing tho – jumping into beet fields and finding dummies, bringing them back to hand [grin]

Loki is fab at finding dummies – he is fast and straight and picks them up – then he drops them when I say ‘come’ or blow the whistle and comes running back  ::)  But he seems to know what is going on and as soon as he hears a gunshot he looks for the dummy.

Just a small update for you – anyway.  Also – he hasn’t run out of the garden since – we have been allowing him to be out there off lead again  ;D

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